Vedanta philosophy originated in India and was written in the early Vedic texts, the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. Vedic texts include the Rig Veda, Sama Veda, Yajur Veda and Atharva Veda. In his phenomenal book, American Veda, Philip Goldberg, scholar, author, lecturer, and meditation teacher, has written beautifully on how Vedanta philosophy and spirituality has transformed the west. He described how Vedanta philosophy and practices were seen not as religious by many westerners, but as more of a “psychology”, “science” or “even a health care modality”.
Goldberg’s first chapter, “Namaste America”, in American Veda, discusses the broad influence of Vedanta philosophy on American culture. The book covers different Indian gurus, like Swami Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda who taught in the United States and the different Americans who studied and incorporated the teachings. I was surprised that key historical figures, like Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau and Walt Whitman were influenced by Vedanta philosophy. Thought leaders and prolific writers, like Carl Jung, Alan Watts, Huston Smith, Ram Dass, and Joseph Campbell were influenced by Vedanta philosophy too. The Beatles’ journey to India to study transcendental meditation was revolutionary in popularizing meditational practices. Practices of mindfulness and meditation have been correlated to positive physical and mental health states.
Goldberg accurately discusses Vedanta philosophy as a shift in consciousness, and anyone can implement Vedanta practices to improve their lives regardless of their religious paths. He states that practicing Vedanta philosophy is not about conversion. I particularly loved the Vedanta concepts of co-existence, respect for diversity and value of freedom, especially intellectual and spiritual freedom. I was fascinated that Swami Vivekananda wrote a poem about the Fourth of July, and that he later died on that day.
This post includes my interview with Philip Goldberg. I found Phil to be erudite, open, very kind and humorous in sharing his knowledge and wisdom. I am deeply grateful for his interview. I highly recommend the book, American Veda. Hope readers enjoy the interview.
INTERVIEW: AMERICAN VEDA
Anindita Ganguly (AG): Namaste Phil. Welcome to the Blog. An honor to have you, Sir. It was great reading the book especially, given my Indian American background.
Philip Goldberg (PG): Namaste. Thank you for having me.
AG: Please tell me about yourself. I am intrigued by your discussion about growing up with parents who were atheists.
PG: I was raised in a secular family. My parents were loving and compassionate people, but they hated religion. They thought religion was full of superstition and was only for fools. They believed that religion was for keeping people down. I thought the same until I went to college.
In the 1960s, I, like many people, started questioning things that we were taught about living life with meaning and purpose. Answers to big questions were missing. Questions such as “Who am I?”, “How do I fit in this world?”, and “How do I live a good life?”. Our generation saw too many unhappy people living according to society’s rules and conventional values. Religion, science and conventional values did not seem to have the answers.
At one point, I was exposed to books on Zen Buddhism, Yoga and Vedanta philosophy, including the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. Before I read the actual texts, I read about them from well-known scholars, psychologists and authors. The messages resonated with me—people from the past like Ralph Waldo Emerson, and Henry David Thoreau, and modern authors like Joseph Campbell, Alan watts and Hermann Hesse. I learned about Indian gurus like Swami Vivekananda and Paramahansa Yogananda who impacted American culture. Then the Beatles visited India in 1968 to practice transcendental meditation. This was revolutionary. As a result, meditation entered western culture and meditation, mindfulness and yoga became very popular. Vedanta philosophy came from the insight of the sages in India. It is rational, empirical and not faith based. As with Buddhism, Vedanta and yoga were presented as teachings to try out and test to see if they are applicable to one’s life.
I, for example, practiced meditation and it changed my life. Then, I trained to become a meditation teacher. Just like these practices changed my life, it also impacted other people. Thus, American Veda is a written document of my personal quest and professional focus.
AG: You discuss yoga as a household word in American culture. What exactly does yoga mean?
PG: People generally think of yoga as physical exercise and there is much scientific research that the practice of yoga is associated with people being calmer and having better health outcomes. However, there is more to yoga. Yoga and Vedanta philosophy are closely connected. The philosophy views the individual in the context of the Universe. We are more than our bodies and personalities. We are the same as the rest of the Universe. We are Divine Beings, and we carry the spark of Divinity within us. The deepest part of the self is identified with the Universe. Yoga practices awaken us and unite our individual consciousness to the cosmic consciousness. Yoga practices help foster tranquility, peace and awareness beyond the ordinary. Thus, there is more to yoga than physical exercise.
AG: What are the different paths of yoga discussed in the Bhagavad Gita?
PG: The four yoga pathways are Raja, Jnana, Karma and Bhakti yoga. Raja yoga emphasizes mind-body-spiritual practices, especially meditation leading to self-realization. Jnana is the yoga of the mind where one is using the mind to go beyond the mind. Karma yoga is the path of selfless action, or action that is in the spirit of service. It is action as an offering to diminish the ego. Bhakti yoga is yoga of the heart and emphasizes devotional practices.
You don’t have to choose one path. You can include all paths or emphasize one path more than another. Different personalities lean towards various yoga paths.
AG: Thank you for explaining this. What is Vedanta philosophy?
PG: Vedanta philosophy and yoga are closely tied. I refer to it in my book as “Vedanta-Yoga”. However, it is important to note that there are different types of Vedanta. I do not want to get into the many types of Vedanta, which is complicated. The best known form is the Vedanta of nonduality, which points to the oneness of the deepest self with the Universe. In the west, many call it God. But some people are uncomfortable with the word, “God” and so we use other terms, like ‘Universe”, “Truth” and “Self”.
AG: Beautifully said. You make a very important point in the book which is that Vedanta philosophy is not about conversion but helps a person live fully in whatever religious path one is choosing. There is respect for spiritual and intellectual freedom, which is being challenged in the US in current times.
PG: One of the important Vedic teachings is that people are not asked to give up their beliefs and follow Vedic teachings as an alternative. Vedic teachings are insights and practices that one can use in whatever belief system one has. You can use these practices to become close to Jesus if you are a Christian, close to Buddha nature if you are a Buddhist or Brahmin if you are a Hindu. You can use practices of yoga or deep silence as a Jew, Atheist, Muslim or if you identify as Spiritual But Not Religious (SBNR). The Vedic teachings are not to be taken on faith alone. They need to be tried and tested in life to see if they work for you. The Vedic teachers who came to the west faced a duality: there were many open-minded Americans who were eager to study with them, and there were others who saw the teaching as the Devil’s work.
AG: You talked about Swami Vivekananda who gave a speech in The World Parliament of Religions in 1893, Chicago where he addressed the audience as “Sisters and Brothers of America” and received a standing ovation. Then you discussed something which is fascinating. You talked about Swami Vivekananda writing a poem about the Fourth of July. Could you please discuss this further?
PG: Swami Vivekananda wrote the poem “To the Fourth of July,” and in 1902 he died on that day. Swami Vivekananda highly valued freedom of inquiry and intellectual freedom that he observed in America, having grown up in Bengal in the early days of India’s fight for Independence from the British empire. He celebrated freedom because it meant a lot to him.
AG: You added that Paramahansa Yogananda is also from the state of West Bengal.
PG: Yogananda wrote the famous book “Autobiography of a Yogi” and established the Self-Realization Fellowship in the US. Both he and Swami Vivekananda were from the state of West Bengal.
AG: In reading “American Veda”, I found it very interesting that William James, known as the father of American psychology, was also influenced by Vedanta philosophy. The ideas of open-minded inquiry and respect for diversity in American Psychological Association’s guidelines are very similar to Vedanta philosophy.
PG: William James met Swami Vivekananda. He discussed Vedanta philosophy in his book, Varieties of Religious Experience. This is also a very important book.
AG: Wow. That is incredible. I had no idea. What figures stood out for you while you were writing American Veda?
PG: Many people. Prominent Indian gurus. Westerners who practiced Vedic teachings in their lives and people who brought the ideas to the larger population. People like Aldous Huxley, Joseph Campbell, and Huston Smith, who was a prominent scholar of religion in the second half of the 20th century, studied with swamis in the lineage of Swami Vivekananda. Smith wrote about Vedanta philosophy in his famous textbook about the world’s religions.
Carl Jung. Abraham Maslow. Richard Alpert, later known as Ram Dass. The Beatles. At a recent lecture at Harvard Divinity School, I gave a presentation on how Ravi Shankar impacted the influence of Indian philosophy in American culture.
AG: I am very influenced by the writings of Carl Jung. I also love Ram Dass’s writings and lectures.
PG: Psychologists have studied Vedanta philosophy to expand their understanding of the human mind. Physicists have studied Vedanta philosophy to comprehend the secrets of the Universe.
Other people who influenced me are Alan watts, Emerson and Thoreau. I discovered Vedanta philosophy when I read Emerson and Thoreau in college. I found out about the Bhagavad Gita when I read Thoreau’s Walden: Life in the Woods. I went to the bookstore and got a copy of the Bhagavad Gita.
AG: I had no idea that Thoreau wrote about the Bhagavad Gita in Walden.
PG: Thoreau saw himself as a yogi. Interestingly, J.D. Salinger also studied Vedanta philosophy and the characters in his books studied mysticism and eastern philosophy.
AG: In American Veda, you mentioned Somerset Maugham was also influenced by Vedanta philosophy. So, I started reading Razor’s Edge. I am enjoying the book.
PG: Yes, the main character, Larry Darrell, an American, was a role model for many American seekers. You should also see the movie Razor’s Edge.
AG: I also want to bring up this line that I love and believe in from American Veda. You wrote in your book, “Truth is one, the wise call it by many names”.
PG: That is a translation of a passage from the Rig Veda.
AG: I totally believe in this concept and sometimes other people have told me that by studying so many different traditions, I am confused. How do you respond to that?
PG: A good question. In current times, we have easy access to various philosophies and thought systems. With a click of a mouse, we can learn about anything. Yes, it is possible for a Spiritual but Not Religious person to be confused. I believe that you must explore carefully, with discernment and guidance, so that you go deeply into whatever it is you are studying. It is as the great Indian saint Sri Ramakrishna said: if you dig too many holes superficially and not deep enough, you will not reach the water. Even if you study with different teachers or dig different holes, the holes must be deep enough so that you will access the water.
AG: That is explained very powerfully.
PG: The scholar Huston Smith identified two aspects of religion: 1) exoteric, which is the external aspect of religion, such as beliefs, rituals and ethics, and 2) esoteric which is the inner personal experience. Scholars like Smith have noted that inner experiences of the Divine or True Self among mystics of all different traditions—Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism—are similar if not identical.
That is in alignment with the statement, “Truth is one, wise call it many names”. There are many pathways to the mountain top: some paths are steep, other paths are gradual, some are straight, and others are winding, some are dangerous and some are easy. But once you get to the mountain top, the view is the same.
AG: Beautifully said. I never thought of the inner experience of the Divine or inner Divine Spark as mysticism. Is that the same as spirituality?
PG: Yes. Spirituality and mysticism are closely connected. The Vedic seers who wrote Vedanta philosophy wrote about this thousands of years ago.
Sri Ramakrishna, gave the example of the Ganges river, which originates in the Himalayas and flows into the Bay of Bengal. He said that as the river runs through different regions of India, different people call water by different names, but it is the same water.
AG: Very true. It is the same water.
I also want to ask you what you mean when you describe yourself as a “pragmatic mystic”.
PG: Yes, I call myself a “pragmatic mystic”. My Substack is called “practical spirituality”. I’m focused on spiritual practices that transform us internally, and how we relate to ourselves and the world. It changes your nervous system, brain and emotions. Practical spirituality changes people.
You can have a superficial spiritual belief system, but the application of spiritual practices changes you and improves your life. Psychologists are studying spiritual practices in terms of how they change the nervous system and brain. Many studies have demonstrated the positive effects of practical spirituality on wellbeing and health.
AG: Yes, this is very consistent with this Blog which focuses on practical spiritual practices which can be implemented to develop skills of wellbeing.
According to the Pew Research Center (2023), 7 out of 10 Americans defined themselves as spiritual in some aspect and 22% noted they are Spiritual But Not Religious (SBNR).
PG: Some researchers also refer to such people as “nones”. This refers to people who, when asked about their religious affiliation, describe their religions as “nothing in particular”. However, people who described themselves as “nones” may practice spirituality to enliven their inner lives. They may have a spiritual quest that is not confined to any religion. This sector is rising among young people, and many go back to religions they grew up in or find a different path.
AG: Thank you for such a comprehensive and informative discussion. Is there any topic that we did not cover?
PG: You asked good questions. Despite the history of the Vedanta philosophy and different figures discussed in American Veda, the most important issue is that now we have more access to spiritual teachings, practices and literature than ever before and we need to be very discerning. Go to reliable resources that have been tested over time. Focus on practices that hold up to science, reason and evidence. The best evidence is positive transformation in your life.
AG: Also practice the principle of ‘do no harm” in spiritual exploration.
PG: Yes. Ahimsa or nonviolence and “do no harm to other beings” is critical. Different religions have similar ethical principles. The Hippocratic oath in medicine has the same spirit.
Treat others as you would like to be treated. This is a powerful practice. Unfortunately, there are people who do not live up to this. When you have a level of peace and contentment in your own life, you are less likely to harm others.
AG: Very true. Thank you for such an incredibly powerful interview. American Veda is a very compelling and beautifully written book.
PHILIP GOLDBERG
Please note that the best way to contact Philip Goldberg is through his website: https://www.philipgoldberg.com/contact-philip-goldberg/
REFERENCES
Pew Research Center (December 7, 2023). Spirituality Among Americans. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/12/07/spirituality-among-americans/